Take Off Your Mask & Remember Yourself! | Be The Better You Retreat Recap with Coach Patrick | Better Man Podcast Ep. 192

Dean Pohlman: Hey guys it’s Dean. Welcome to the Betterment Podcast. Today’s episode is a special interview with Coach Patrick of The Man for the community. This discussion focuses on this concept of finding yourself. What is finding yourself actually mean? And we bring this up because it became the theme of the most recent Be the Better You retreats that we hosted.

Dean Pohlman: And at these retreats, we really focus on digging deep into you, getting more in touch with yourself so that you can move forward with your life, with greater alignment between who you are, your values, and what you’re doing on a daily basis. And so in this conversation, we go through a lot of the themes that we’re within our community at this event.

Dean Pohlman: So these are men who are in their 40s, 50s and 70s. They’re probably going through the same challenges that you are just in different flavors. Some of the things that we discussed were loneliness and not reaching out to others. Community. We talked a lot about caregiving. We talked about solving versus listening. So actually listening to the problem rather than trying to solve it.

Dean Pohlman: We talked about how self-care is often considered selfish by our partners, and there’s friction there. We also talked about the importance of doing things that are hard to build confidence in our ability to do things. And overall, we talked about this theme of ourselves already having the answers of you or I or whoever it is, already having the answers that we’re looking for.

Dean Pohlman: It just takes the confidence and the right environment and the intuition to bring it out and make that apparent. So this conversation goes into a lot of things, but I think it really does well with the overall message of what we’re trying to accomplish with the betterment podcast and self-improvement for men in general. So I know that there’s something in this that will resonate with you, and I hope it inspires you to be a better man.

Dean Pohlman: Enjoy this episode. Enjoy. Patrick. He’s amazing.

Dean Pohlman: Hey guys, it’s Dean. Welcome to the Better Man podcast. Today I’ve got Coach Patrick here.

Dean Pohlman: From Man Flow Yoga, and we’re going to be talking about this grand theme of finding yourself. What does this actually mean? So first off, Patrick, thanks for joining me for this discussion.

Coach Patrick: Thank you for having me here. I look forward to it.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And the reason why Patrick is here is because Patrick was with me at the be the Better you retreat. We just we just finished up, and, you know, Patrick and I talked a lot in the weeks leading up to it and the months leading up to it, but what do we want this to focus on? Because everyone feels different than, than than, you know, the previous ones.

Dean Pohlman: And so, so this time, after talking with the participants and, you know, talking months ourselves and just kind of feeling out what felt appropriate, we decided to focus on this theme of kind of finding yourself or finding the you instead of being the better you. It’s finding the real you. And I think that’s such a cliche, cliche term, right?

Dean Pohlman: Like what is finding yourself actually mean? And so, you know, Patrick and I, you know, discussed well what actually goes into that and what does that look like? In other people’s lives. And we can actually, you know, bring up some examples from participants, you know, nothing specific. We’re not going to give away, you know, personal details, but we can talk about the themes that were involved.

Dean Pohlman: So, Patrick, I’ll turn it off. I’ll turn it over to you at this point and, you know, talk about, you know, what what what gets in the way of people finding themselves.

Coach Patrick: Well, I think the term finding yourself is what gets in the way because, like you said, it’s like, so pop culture and it’s it’s overdone. And the theme that I like to introduce and we kind of worked on that is while it’s finding yourself, ultimately it’s remembering yourself, right? So there’s parts of us that we just gave up on, or we’re told very early on that we could or could not be either directly or indirectly.

Coach Patrick: And then through life changes, whether it’s again, circumstances, cultural family changes, we kind of forget that person that we wanted to be as we were growing up. And so when we’re finding ourselves, it is more of a rediscovery of that person that we haven’t paid attention to or that we thought couldn’t be. And it’s really important because you you talk about the why all the time, but unless we’re certain of who we actually are, are we finding the why that really feeds us?

Coach Patrick: Or is it the way that feeds this character that we created? And that’s why sometimes the why doesn’t work. Because it’s not our why or it’s not a why for the life that we actually want. So it’s not going to be sustainable. So I think that that term finding ourselves, it just has that unfortunate cliche. But it also has that call to be selfish, spending time working on yourself.

Coach Patrick: And we don’t get told that that’s okay very often, or at least we don’t feel like it. Although I do think it’s a direct message that we get. So I think those are things that stand in the way.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And that that theme of, you know, of of selfish self-care, being selfish definitely came out, came up a lot this weekend. For some people, it was a major point of friction, in relationships, for many people, it seemed to be like the defining, friction point that may have caused those relationships to fail. And, you know, when I think about finding yourself and what gets in the way, I, you know, you’ve already brought up a lot of this, but, you know, the it is a rediscovery of yourself.

Dean Pohlman: You know, I think most of us can be ourselves to a certain point when we’re younger, you know, but by the time we hit seven, I don’t know the exact age. You know, there’s probably a very specific number that psychologists agree upon, but, you know, it’s probably 5 to 7 years old at that point. You know, you realize there are certain behaviors that get rewarded and certain ones that are are punished or discouraged.

Dean Pohlman: And so you just kind of fall into these behaviors and their subconscious, right? You don’t actually make the decision to do this yourself. You’re not old enough yet to the point where you can make these decisions. You just fall into them. And so this, this rediscovery that happens for a lot of people is something that happens after decades of, you know, some of the things that were discussed, like putting on a mask, right, not showing people the real you because, you know, you just you don’t know what the real you is.

Dean Pohlman: You’ve, you’ve, you’ve you haven’t acted it out for so long. A lot of and I think a lot of people also just get into the habit of not being themselves. And they’re there is some sort of, you know, there is some sort of midlife realization for a lot of people, that they realize, oh, I’m wearing a mask, you know, oh, I’m not being myself.

Dean Pohlman: But there’s still fear behind taking the mask off. And so we get kind of just, we just kind of get used to wearing the mask and you’re like, oh, this is like, it’s safe. It’s not who I am, but it’s it’s it’s safe. And that’s that’s what we were hearing. That was a big example of what we’re hearing, a lot of this, you know, when we did this event recently.

Coach Patrick: Well, yeah. And that mask or that character that you create, that’s what everybody knows. That’s what everybody expects. That’s what everybody loves. Right? So if I give that up, am I giving up being lovable or being loved? Am I going to let people down? That’s a huge one, right? We create this idea that somehow we are the thing holding everything and everyone together.

Coach Patrick: And if we take time to find ourselves, well, what if that’s not the person that people love or celebrate or embrace? Now I’ve just blown my world up. So there’s a lot of reasons why that character that we create, really gets ingrained. And it also, how do you even know to ask? Right? Whenever you start doing things like meditating or journaling, which is why I’m so big on it, going to a therapist or even broadening your community with diverse individuals.

Coach Patrick: That’s kind of where that mindset gets broken up, where you start asking questions that you wouldn’t even know to ask. Like, I find myself at every one of these retreats, I find myself asking more questions about myself that I didn’t even know to ask. And I think that’s the beauty of these retreats. I think it’s the beauty of community.

Coach Patrick: I think it’s the beauty of getting to know different types of people. Is they through them? You start asking yourself questions and it’s a really beautiful opportunity to grow. And in some a lot of instances, you may not even change your character. Right? But now you’re being that person on purpose instead of like an automatic kind of play out, which it’s always better to be ourselves on purpose versus running some script that we don’t even recognize.

Coach Patrick: So whether we have big changes or just little changes, it makes us feel better or be more congruent with ourselves. And the more that we are with our actual selves, the more psychologically comfortable we are. We’re not living in stress all the time. And you know what stress does to the body.

Dean Pohlman: So. Yeah. Yes. I’m just I’m thinking of a few of the examples that, you know, we heard from people and, you know, one of them was like, you know, what you talked about just feeling like you have to take care of everybody, prioritizing other people’s needs, not really taking time for yourself, not really having any practice in doing that.

Dean Pohlman: There being guilt around doing it. I think we, we also have a lot of guys who who seem to be loners, you know, guys that have just kind of learned to be on their own, some of them, because maybe they didn’t feel safe, being with other people. But there were also people, you know, there’s one guy there who, you know, was praised for his independence as he was a child.

Dean Pohlman: And so he just maintained his independence because it was what he was praised for. And, you know, and now he’s, you know, now he’s questioning, do I, you know, maybe I should want to interact with people. Maybe. What would it feel like if I did open myself up to other people? But, you know, we’re all fighting against that.

Dean Pohlman: You know, those protector parts of us that say hey, like, no, don’t go into that because we remember what we learned, remember what we learned. And we were five when we were six. Like, that’s not good. If we do that, we won’t be loved. We won’t be safe. And so it is, you know, for, for for many people, it’s getting into touch with some of these, it’s being aware of, okay, what are my resistances.

Dean Pohlman: And then also having the courage to go into that resistance and experience the emotion, that, that, that the protector is trying to save you from.

Coach Patrick: Right. Well, and you brought up a great point, even that identity. I’m a loner. Are you? Because that loner, as soon as they had community and realized that people would listen to them and receive them, that loner suddenly became community based, wanted to be out there, wanted to be talking, wanting to be really engaged with everybody. And I think that’s a perfect example of, oh, I thought I was a loner because before that’s what gave me to Tod a reward.

Coach Patrick: So I stuck with that title and I didn’t know to ask or think, is, is that really who I am, or is it who was this kid and why was it like that? And now that I have this opportunity to try out being social, oh my gosh, I’m actually really social. So that was like really cool to see someone questioning that definition of who they are and redefining it like in real time.

Coach Patrick: Right. And we see that a lot with these receipts. And now you’ve done more than I have. But I find that like the second there is permission to be a community, permission to be open, it just it just explodes. Do you find that to be the case in all of these?

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And I you know, I, I don’t want to make this sound like you have to be at a retreat to to do this, you know, but the same time, like, the environment does create the permission to do it, you know, and, you know, a lot of these guys, it was apparent a lot of these guys have never had these kinds of conversations before.

Dean Pohlman: They kind of had they had difficulty, creating concise explanations of their thoughts. You know, I think a lot of as men, we also tend to listen and try to solve rather than listen and try to hold or create empathy. There’s kind of this there’s a discomfort with the unresolved situation. You’re like, I’d rather fix your problem than here, then feel your feeling.

Dean Pohlman: And so, you know, there’s there’s a lot of us just don’t we don’t have number one. We don’t have the language to be able to talk about these things. But then we also don’t have the skills to be able to give other people what we also need in terms of being heard, in terms of, you know, feeling, oh, this guy understands what I’m going through.

Dean Pohlman: He’s trying to understand, you know, what I’m going through and not just trying to give me a solution. So a lot of it is also, you know, this process of finding yourself. I guess what I’m saying here is it takes work to be able to the skills that are involved in finding yourself. It isn’t just, you know, something that you decide to do one day and you’re like, oh, yep, I realized it right there.

Dean Pohlman: There’s a level of self-awareness and skills that have to be developed in order for you to actually start to understand yourself.

Coach Patrick: You nailed it. And I also do want to reiterate, I’m using these examples from the retreat. But the point of the retreat is you have a group of people that are coming together with reasonably common same interests and in a place where they can do that. So I would say anyone you can recreate that experiment anywhere, find a book club, find it, whatever your interest is, right?

Coach Patrick: Board games, whatever. Find that community and build it right. Select. But you have to get out into it and it might. It’s not going to be as handed to you as a retreat. But no, you don’t have to just be to retreat to do it. But it is about continuing and wanting that community where you can build that communication.

Coach Patrick: And as you put it, it’s not a one time thing. This is like yoga or strength training, right? Or or a healthy lifestyle. You don’t do it. You don’t lift one weight and go biceps and you’re done right like it’s no. Every day you got to practice. You got to do something to keep that fluidity going. And just like your body will continue to evolve, the more you do things like yoga or strength or whatever it is that your mindset and your personality will continue to develop the more you practice it.

Coach Patrick: So this is like in a wonderful way, a lifelong journey. It is not a one stop shop and I wouldn’t want anyone to go into it thinking it is. It can either be the beginning of the journey or the middle of the journey, or, you know, a new detour of your journey. Whatever it is, find a community, a group, even the manager of yoga, you know, community Facebook page or on the app is a beautiful example of you.

Coach Patrick: You can find people anywhere that will embrace you. And I’ve seen people come alive just through the Facebook interactions. So it’s really about recreating that. Yes, the retreats give us a nice little vacuum special pack where it can be accelerated. But make no mistake, you you can find it however you want to.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And I’m just I’m just laughing to myself because, you know, you said you said book club or what was the other example? You gave.

Coach Patrick: Word.

Dean Pohlman: Games, board games. And I’m just like, I’ve never been part of a men’s group board game club or, you know, my mind is going to like, let’s go bowling together or hey, let’s like, you know, I guess I think of also, to to be clear, I don’t engage in, you know, these super masculine activities not out of choice, but because I just, I don’t know, I never got into the habit of, like, going hunting together or going fishing.

Dean Pohlman: Right? Like the typical, the things you think of or like working out together. Right? Doing yoga together. And it helps to have community centered around some sort of activity. You know, if you do, just try and say, like, hey, let’s hang out and meet up and just talk about things. It’s it’s it’s hard to make that happen because a lot of a lot of men just aren’t drawn to that.

Dean Pohlman: Or maybe they’re scared of that, or maybe there’s just not interest in it. Like I tried to start a, you know, I tried to start a men’s group a few months ago in, in Austin, and I asked a lot of the dads, and ultimately it just didn’t catch on. And I think it was because I led into this with, like this.

Dean Pohlman: Hey, we’re going to meet up and talk about things, and here are all the struggles that I know men go through. And I think it was just I think it was just too heavy for people. But the nice thing about the retreat is that, you know, the environment is curated ahead of time. You know what you’re signing up for.

Dean Pohlman: People come ready to have, people come ready to have those conversations. And so, you know, getting the right people together in the right environment does help facilitate the self-discovery and the work that goes into self-discovery, rather than just guys hanging out and, you know, maybe shooting the shit or talking about things that are nice to talk about.

Dean Pohlman: It’s comfortable, it’s relatable and maybe familiar, but it’s ultimately not going to, you know, it serves as the basis to help us connect, but it’s not going to create the depth that I think is required, for noticeable self-growth.

Coach Patrick: Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely it’s going to be a nice catalyst. It might even be a nice little mixing bowl to get the ingredients put together. But yeah, you’re going to have to curate the experience a little bit more on your own, which I’ve done before. And yeah, it’s sometimes it really hits and sometimes it really misses. The groups I go to if I don’t have if I don’t find that community instantly, I may find 1 or 2 people.

Coach Patrick: Then I’m like, hey, I want you to be part of my group now. So even if we’re not playing board games with this group, come with me. And then you start slowly building that surround me, right? Yeah. And that it is harder, I do think, for men to do it because they do feel like there’s certain things they have to engage in, whether it’s hunting or fishing.

Coach Patrick: Notice I furthest thing from my mind, so I apologize. Thank you for the other side of it. But yeah, and oftentimes not always a lot of times min activities group are about doing things that sidetrack you from talking. Right. And so you have to really be you have to think about if you’re like oh I’m, I’m going to join a group of movie lovers.

Coach Patrick: And what we do is we meet the theater and we sit in the dark and watch movies. I think that’s awesome. But if you’re not talking about it afterwards, you’re not breaking up that social barrier to kind of go deeper. So just think about the activity. Find something that you love. Find a group of people, take them with you off site like, hey, after this group, you want to go get some coffee.

Coach Patrick: You seem easy to talk to, right? Yeah. Putting yourself out there, which is terrifying in the real world, at least I think it is.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. For sure. You know, one of the other themes that we that we tried to focus on in the, in the sense of finding yourself is this idea that most people there are already had the answers that they were seeking. They but they didn’t have the.

Dean Pohlman: They didn’t have the intuition to acknowledge it, or there was something in the way. There was, you know, there was a lack of courage. There was fear around the outcome, fear around uncertainty. There was fear of, oh, but everything would fall apart if I did that right. There’s a big theme, and this is probably theme with a with a lot of men in general is if I don’t do this, it’s going to fall apart.

Dean Pohlman: Like I can’t take the time for myself, because if I don’t do that thing, it’s going to fall apart. And if it falls apart, then you know my life is over, right? It’s just this it’s it’s it’s not so much the fear of what would happen if this thing didn’t get done. It’s it goes into this, this almost spiraling of, oh, it didn’t get done and everything’s done and everything’s ruined and everything is over.

Dean Pohlman: It’s like it’s, you know, you just drop off a cliff and you start ruminating on, you know, it’s like, I don’t know, like a really, really, maybe bad example, but maybe a good example is I have to get the dishes done. What would happen if the dishes don’t? I don’t know, but if they didn’t get done, it would be terrible and and everything would fall apart.

Dean Pohlman: And you’re like, well, no, if you didn’t do the dishes, there would just be dirty dishes, right? But like, it’s so hard to give up the compulsion to do the thing. And we don’t look at what are the real consequences. It’s the it’s this catastrophizing. And that is what a lot of people talked about this, this, this catastrophizing of situations.

Coach Patrick: When I think that that’s I mean, I think it’s pretty common. We live in a very reactive world. Right. So it makes sense. And we do build up this anxiety around being in charge, being this we did that one exercise one time. Wasn’t this retrieve another one. It was like, and then what? And then what? And then what, making them like really carry out their fear because we we kind of stop whenever it’s like everything will explode and then we stop.

Coach Patrick: It’s that real. What will happen? They’ll be doing dishes. Okay. Then what? They’ll sit there. Okay. Then what? They might get flies. Okay. And then what? Like no world ends. You’re going to be okay taking, making sure you push through that moment of fear to kind of think of what what happens on the other side of that fear often eradicates the fear.

Coach Patrick: And so, like you and I work on all the time, we’re big on, I’m not going to give you the answer that would do you no good. I want you to believe in yourself. I want you to trust yourself. And whether it’s because the world is beating them down or they just don’t have confidence, they don’t want to listen to their voice because they don’t feel like anything about them.

Coach Patrick: Right? So why would their voice be right? So as you find the you, as you find your why, as you build your confidence, then you can start trusting that inner voice. But if you don’t trust yourself or think you’re valuable, then how are you going to listen to the voice that comes from Europe?

Dean Pohlman:

Coach Patrick: So giving people tools and permission to say, hey, I bet you know how to solve this. I bet you’ve done this a million times for other people. What would you do. And you ask somebody particularly this time what would you tell a friend to do. What have you told someone to do that situation. And they had it and it was perfect and beautiful.

Coach Patrick: And then them seeing that realization of like, I guess I did know. Yeah, okay, I guess I did. It’s really cool to see someone start to own their own belief system about themselves. And what does it say? Like physician heal they self. Right. Like, know that you can do it. I know that sounds counterintuitive to what we’re talking about, which is community, community, community.

Coach Patrick: But if you’re not listening to yourself, you’re like flailing around to whatever expert is telling you to do at any given moment. And then where does that end? Right. And you’re never building that confidence up in yourself for any kind of long.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. You know, it’s thinking about, you know, following your own advice essentially. And and one of the things that, you know, we tend to do is we, we say why it won’t work for us. Right? We if you and one of the things that I try to do to to get people to look at it a different way is, okay, I want you to imagine that your friend is in the exact same situation.

Dean Pohlman: And what do you tell him or her or they to do? Like what is the right? What is the what is the thing that they need to do? Because you, you you, you’re looking at it right. And you know what they need to do. You can understand the fear behind it, but you know, you know what they need to do.

Dean Pohlman: And so it’s it’s kind of up to you to then, you know, turn it around on yourself and say, oh, I know what I’m supposed to do, but I’m scared. I know what I’m supposed to do. But I don’t know what will happen. I know what I’m supposed to do, but how will I know that it will be okay?

Dean Pohlman: And those are all, you know, those are all fears. Those are not reasons to not do the thing, right. Fear is fear is trying to protect you from uncertainty. It’s trying to protect you from situations that you’ve already experienced in your life that led to pain. But fear itself is not a good reason not to do something right.

Dean Pohlman: You look at the fear and you say, okay, the fear is there, and I will move forward. But getting in, you know, that kind of environment where you’re able to voice allowed the fear and then maybe have some gentle but, you know, kind of firm responses from people you trust that say like, well, hey, what is getting in the way?

Dean Pohlman: You know, kind of challenge that and to get you to have to counter response to that. And then as you’re saying it, you’re like, oh God, that’s bullshit. That’s total bullshit. I can’t let that be the reason I don’t do it. So, you know, there there is a there’s a process and you can do it with yourself, but doing it in an environment where you’re actually prompted to answer the follow up questions allows you to kind of see the bullshit that you’re giving yourself.

Dean Pohlman: Hey, guys, interrupting My podcast to talk about rapid release. This is a Mobility tool that I have been obsessed with for the last few months. It’s something that I use when I’m watching TV. It’s my go to pain relief tool. If I have muscle tightness or soreness, that’s causing pain, and it has been an amazing complement to my overall fitness and my mobility practice. If you want to learn more, go to the link in the show notes below and then use the Mantle Yoga Code there for pretty nice discount.

Coach Patrick: It’s amazing how saying things out loud and hearing yourself say it instantly does just cut through. Like any bullshit. You’re how you’re like. Yeah, that sounds ridiculous. Which is why it’s really great to have that community or journaling or seeing it out loud to an empty room. Just sometimes the act of hiring ourselves, say it instead of being in our mind ultimately transforms it.

Coach Patrick: And, I think I think it’s cool. Fear has a place, right? Without fear, we would walk into traffic, you know, walk off a ledge. You know, fear has an amazing place. But if we let it run rampant, it keeps us in a in a safety zone and nothing good happens there. No growth happens there, no changes happen there.

Coach Patrick: So while it has its place, you have to do things like confront it, check on it, make sure you’re in control of it, versus you know it in control of you so that you have a healthy level of fear, but not one that completely paralyzes you all the time. Right.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And you know, so it just makes me think about how, how this is one of the other themes. But, but finding yourself is also being yourself and just recognizing what’s holding you back in terms of energy, what’s holding you back in things that you haven’t resolved. And one of the things we hear a lot of, because most of the guys who are attending these retreats are not guys who are in their 20s.

Dean Pohlman: Most of our guys are, you know, 50, 60, and we have a fair amount of men in our 70s who are attending as well. And what happens as you get older? Well, the people who are in your life are also getting older. You know, you usually end up losing your parents at some point. A lot of the guys there also had partners who they had lost.

Dean Pohlman: Some of them, who, you know, they had lost recently. Some of them who they had lost, you know, five, ten years ago. But one of the things that came up, there’s a lot of guilt around. There was still a lot of pain over, you know, over some of it being, you know, I lost patience with them.

Dean Pohlman: I was cared, I was I was caregiving for my partner, my spouse. I was caregiving for my dad and or my mom. And, you know, I just I started to resent it or I was I lost my temper more than I wanted to. And there’s this guilt over what you could have done better. And a lot of the people who are, you know, who are talking about this experience, I think they had already done a decent job of of grieving.

Dean Pohlman: But but I think there was still, you know, there was still some stuff left to explore there. And I think even being able to reach out that and if you can revisit it and you don’t have like a triggered response to it, I think that’s a really good indication of, hey, like you’ve you’ve already done the work here and you’ve, you’ve moved, you’ve moved through it.

Dean Pohlman: One of the other things was, you know, we also talked about anticipatory grief. There were a there were there were some guys there who their spouses were terminally, terminally ill. And they, you know, they kind of know what’s going to happen. It’s just when. And so there’s also this, this consideration of, you know, how do I how do I deal with this grief that is incoming?

Dean Pohlman: How much do I of myself do I do I give? How much of this do I confide in with them? What is my partner hiding from me and an attempt to shield me from, from from their discomfort. And so, you know, there’s just a there’s just a lot to discuss. And sometimes your partner cannot be the person that you discuss this with.

Dean Pohlman: You need to have other people, that you can talk with. So so that’s that’s a lot, a lot to kind of summarize, but to summarize what I just said is, you know, a lot of us are getting older and dealing with the impact of aging and losing people and grieving and reconciling with that.

Coach Patrick: Well, one other point that I want to make sure to bring up is when you were talking, it reminded me of we talk about not being ourselves because of social pressure or expectations, and almost all of them that either we’re experiencing grief or anticipatory grief had gotten so much feedback about where they should be, how they should be handling grief.

Coach Patrick: Yes. And I remember that just being that pushed them further into their isolation because it’s like, I, I don’t talk to anybody about this anymore because I don’t I don’t want to hear that. I should think about, oh, the brighter day tomorrow and I don’t want to hear. Well, it’s been a month. It’s been a year where. So if you ever doubt kind of the pressure we get from other people because they feel uncomfortable and they don’t know what to say to make you feel better.

Coach Patrick: And once again, we’re solving instead of listening. And all it does is push that isolation in and then reinforce that guilt of, like, I could have been better, I could have been more patient, I could be. So it’s such a complicated mash of everything coming together. So that’s why it’s good to have that sounding board or more than one sounding board who can just sit with you, just just hold space, just listen and be like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry.

Coach Patrick: Right. And that’s all we need sometimes. But it’s hard when you’re going through grief or or really any big life change, feedback that we get from people about how we should or should not experience that change.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And it’s that’s something that I can definitely relate to in my own life. You know, I think I was I was very much told to I was told to well, look at it this way instead of looking at it this way and, and I, I agree with you. Right. That’s just something that people do to make themselves feel less uncomfortable.

Dean Pohlman: They’re like, oh, your grief is like. Or your sadness is, can you just do do something else instead? Like, hey, just be happy instead, right? You know, it’s it’s very easy to change your emotions like that. Like absolutely 100. No, it’s not, it’s, And no one wants to be told we want to be validated. And so I think it is it is a really important point that you bring up and that, you know, when we are told to feel a certain way, it does kind of drive us inward.

Dean Pohlman: It says, oh, okay, well, I shouldn’t be telling people how I’m feeling if I feel this way or it does lead to that, that guilt or that that criticism of, oh, you’re right. Right. You’re just kind of like, you know, beating your head and saying like, oh, I should be feeling differently. I should be different. And, I shouldn’t be negative about this.

Dean Pohlman: And, yeah, I think I think that’s a great point.

Coach Patrick: I absolutely hate the sheds, by the way, and we all do it. But I try to make that my trigger word. If I hear myself say should either out loud or to myself, I catch myself like, hey, wait, wait, what’s that about? Because usually nothing good comes from when I’m shooting myself. So it’s one of those, like, there are certain words you can catch, and recognize that you’re probably not being the best, so just monitor it.

Coach Patrick: And that’s one of them. Because shoulds usually do come from some outside belief system of what we should be doing or how we should be handling things right. But in any of these processes, I think there’s there’s two big takeaways we saw from individuals and including myself. I’ll throw myself in the mix like it’s maintenance and grace.

Coach Patrick: Maintenance and grace. You know, if you think about your car, you take it in, you get the oil change. Maybe not if you have an electric car, but there’s other things to do to keep up with it because life is wear and tear. So if you’re not journaling, if you’re not meditating, if you’re not going to a men’s group, if you’re not doing maintenance, there’s a lot of buildup that happens and eventually it’s going to break down.

Coach Patrick: And you don’t want to do that, and you got to have grace on top of all of it because you’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to say the wrong thing, you’re going to do the wrong thing. And that has to be okay. You have to be okay with being brave enough to make the changes, because yeah, that’s going to come with a lot of screw ups and isn’t that great?

Coach Patrick: Because I mean, you’re trying.

Dean Pohlman: Yes. That is, if you ever come to an event, you’ll hear Patrick and I will say as well, because at this point I just like saying it. And isn’t that great right at the end of anything that sounds remotely negative and isn’t that great, it can be inappropriate at times, which we’ve realized, but we try to we try to avoid doing it for incredibly well.

Dean Pohlman: I in my head I’m like, isn’t that great? And I’m like, I’m not going to say that out loud, though, because that would be incredibly insensitive.

Coach Patrick: It’s welcome. Sometimes it’s a tension breaker, which is something we also do to diffuse the situation. Yeah. Isn’t that great? And yet I don’t like closed mindsets, which we do all the time. So you got to say yet so that, you know, you’re going to get through it. You’re there’s something on the other end. There’s room for growth, there’s room for change.

Coach Patrick: And isn’t that great? Because it kind of takes that catastrophic feeling out of whatever your statement is. And I use the isn’t that great? Usually when people would think it’s something bad, like I just failed, isn’t that great? Well, that means you tried something new, right? Cool. Now you got a whole data set of things you can do to improve.

Coach Patrick: Isn’t this great? You failed. Oh, I love it. You know, I was scared. Great. Oh, isn’t that great? Like you must have really put yourself out of your comfort zone. Wow. I’m really proud of you. So it’s really about changing. It’s not about lying to ourselves, and it’s not about being toxic positive. You got to admit the bad stuff, too.

Coach Patrick: But letting things be more multidimensional than just scary and doom and gloom and world ending. We have to learn how to push through that, or we’re going to not grow, and then we’re going to just suffer, and we’re doing all of this stuff that we do. I hope, because we want a long, happy life. So I want you to enjoy a long, happy life as your true self.

Dean Pohlman: And a lot of these topics and a lot of these, you know, themes that we’re discussing right now, there are they feel really heavy. Right. They’re very serious and, and the, the irony of that is that you can access that place by doing the opposite. And so one of the things that we did this this week is and I’ve started doing this at my weekend wellness events as well, we kind of do a silly movement slash yoga session.

Dean Pohlman: And I just like we just do a bunch of really random, spontaneous things like, you know, I’ll be we’ll be doing like, I don’t know, we’ll be doing a plank and then I’ll say, okay, try to knock over the person next to you and we’ll like, you know, this time we were like trying to push each other over or, you know, I’m it’ll be something like, all right, look at the person next to you and make a really funny face.

Dean Pohlman: Write all these things that, you know, we just, you know, I can I can explain this. I can, you know, I can say this only from my own experience, but I think especially as men, you know, we have very serious roles. You know, we think about, you know, if you’re the provider or a provider, if you, you know, you want to if you have kids, then you want to help with with holding them accountable and keeping them on track.

Dean Pohlman: And, and, you know, if you have professional goals, then you need to think about those. And there’s a, you know, we’re kind of just learn for you just learn that fun just doesn’t have as much of a place. And it makes it so that a lot of these things that you actually enjoy even start to lose their fun over time, even if it used to be fun.

Dean Pohlman: It’s this, and so one of the things that that you can do is think about, well, what do I need to do to have fun or what can I do to have fun? And so you think back to when you were a kid, right? Most of us can remember sometime, or something that we did as kids, that we were fun.

Dean Pohlman: And part of that is just playing, right? Part of that is just like doing making silly faces or playing make believe or or or wrestling or using, you know, using your body to have fun. So, you know, this is a and whenever we, whenever we did this, it actually like people relaxed people were able to to let their guard down, to connect more easily with one another.

Dean Pohlman: And so that’s, that’s one of the things that you can do to, you know, getting better touch with yourself to help find yourself is rediscover this sense of fun. And and I also will say about this that it’s very awkward for me to do this. Like, it feels really weird for me to be leading a yoga, you know, or a movement session.

Dean Pohlman: And instead of saying, okay, and engage your glutes and like, you know, make sure that your hips are level here, I say something like, all right, everyone stand up and beat your chest like a gorilla. You know, they’re very they’re just very spontaneous. They don’t have any point. They’re just. Or sometimes I’ll just oh, we’re just going to move our arms in circles and, and introduce kind of like a wave to our body.

Dean Pohlman: It’s just meant to be spontaneous and to help break up the seriousness.

Coach Patrick: Well, I can say, having witnessed it, it is greatly received. And I hate that we don’t access Joy. Right? But let’s talk about finding ourselves and being ourselves right. The second that you give permission for people to play, you’re up there, beat your chest like a gorilla. You just see the the facial changes and suddenly everybody’s laughing and doing it, and they’re in the moment and they’re just lost.

Coach Patrick: And that permission to play, that permission to have joy, that permission to just be silly, is so powerful to give people. And when you are you anyone when you’re being yourself, your true self, it kind of just radiates this confidence that allows other people to be more themselves. And so I, I there will never be a time where you do that and people go, nah, I don’t want to, I don’t want to be silly.

Coach Patrick: I maybe but I can’t see that because the second you’re giving it people just laugh. Now there’s that apprehension at first. Who’s going to be the first one to do what Dean says. But then it like oh everybody’s doing it and the way it changes. You can feel it and it is so fun to watch. So,

Coach Patrick: It’s magical. Thank you for for coming up with those things. It really does allow people to have that, that sense of joy. And I think play is so such a lost art, such a lost therapy. Again, the same thing with workouts, right? I hate when people are like, oh. Hey, these workouts, I do it because I have to.

Coach Patrick: And you know, I got to do five of them. It makes well, didn’t stop. Don’t do it. Do something else. My god. Like what? What are you doing? Not that you shouldn’t build up resilience and make yourself do hard things. Live live live audio, everyone. Now that you shouldn’t make yourself be committed and do hard things because you should.

Coach Patrick: But ultimately, if you are going against what’s making you happy, then why are you doing it? Find something else. If you start a yoga series and it’s making you miserable. My God. Do something else. Do another yoga series. There’s plenty of them. Come back to that one when you feel like it. But if you’re heating your existence, well, then why are you trying to live to be 100?

Coach Patrick: Like, what’s the point, then?

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. Fair point. You know, I always think about, you know, if there’s resistance that there’s there’s just a lack of motivation for exercise, like. Sure, part of it might just be like, oh, I just don’t like doing these types of workouts. Cool. But if you know it is something that you enjoy doing or you used to enjoy doing and now you’re like, it feels like a chore, then I hate I hate the I hate the fitness.

Dean Pohlman: I hate the shame based motivation that seems very inherent in fitness. You know, I talk about a lot of people are just doesn’t matter. Just go to the gym. I’m like, well, it kind of does matter, you know? Like, sure. Like we know that the gym is good for us. We know that working out is good for us.

Dean Pohlman: And you can acknowledge that. I don’t want to go to the gym and still go to the gym, but to just, like, not acknowledge the feelings at all and then go to the gym is probably not a great recipe for, you know, it just takes more and more energy to the point that eventually you’re going to hate it and you’ll never and you’ll never do it again.

Dean Pohlman: So I like to, you know, if there is a lack of motivation for something like that, I like to look at, well, what’s what’s sapping motivation from other areas of your life, because if you don’t have the motivation to get outside and go for a walk or to load up like a ten minute yoga session, you know what’s what’s in the way, what’s that’s that’s very much like a that’s very much a deeper question of how is my life so draining that I can’t do this simple thing?

Coach Patrick: This is a really great point. That’s the other side of it. Yeah. It’s not that you should always give in to it, but if you’re hating what you’re doing. Yeah. Look at look at what’s creating. That is what’s what’s dragging you down. The rest. I think it’s a perfect way to put it right. Because we don’t live in a vacuum.

Coach Patrick: You know, every if you’re exhausted, if you if you’re not feeding your body, if you’re not maintaining relationships, all of those build up into this motivation that we talk about. Motivation. I don’t think of motivation as a thing. I think of as a culmination of things. So it’s like, well, okay, if that’s not work, if motivation isn’t working, go look at the pieces and see what piece is missing so you can plug it in.

Coach Patrick: Right. And then your motivation will come. But I don’t like to think of it personally as like a magical thing that either comes to you or doesn’t come to you. It’s like, no, just like every other answer. You know how to create motivation. Just oh, oh, you have it, you have it. You’ve been staying up every night for a week playing video games and you haven’t got any sleep.

Coach Patrick: Well, I wouldn’t be motivated either. Oh. Oh, you’ve only ate Snickers and Doritos, which are my favorite. I’m not dogging it. Snickers and Doritos for a week and no greenery. Yeah, you probably aren’t gonna feel your best, so I’m not going to do anything either. Check your parts. Right. Check your parts. What? What’s going on with that motivation?

Coach Patrick: Find that deeper reason. Right. Are you fighting with a loved one? Are you caring for a loved one? All of those things. Right. They go as far as I’m concerned. Those are all the ingredients for motivation. But ultimately don’t hate don’t hate the workout. Find one that brings you joy and find a way to make it bring joy.

Coach Patrick: You don’t have to be miserable to be healthy.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And then, you know, at the exact opposite of that, I think, is also like challenging yourself to do things that you don’t think you can do. Like Patrick, for example, you know, you you dreaded going on a hike. We did a hike that we eventually we started and we realized very soon in like, oh, this is harder than we thought it would be.

Dean Pohlman: And I think it took us it was 18 hours, did not take 18 hours. Stop it. It was maybe I think it was like two hours. I think it took two hours to get up maybe to. I think it was two. I think it was two hours to get up. And there was a 800ft chain, 800ft elevation, maybe 900ft elevation change.

Dean Pohlman: Right. So we were going up for for most of the time, I think the first hour was like switchbacks, you know, going going up at a, at a, at a manageable incline. And then we got to the top and we, we got to the top of one section and we’re like, oh, there’s still more to go.

Dean Pohlman: And some people, they just realized, I am this is beyond me. And I’m going to stop here and turn around. And I really respected those people for for doing that. And they’re like, no, I don’t want to do any more. I’ve done what I can and I, I, I have I know what my body needs for those people.

Dean Pohlman: Great. So, so if you turn it around and for the people who are like kind of on the edge, they’re like, I think I can do it. They did it like Patrick. You like you didn’t think you could do it. And and I was in my head. I was like, Patrick, you can absolutely do a hike. You know, you’ll be fine.

Dean Pohlman: And you were. But for some people, you know, they got to the top of that, that, that, that hike, that mountain essentially. And they were incredibly proud of themselves because they didn’t think they could do it. Or a lot of people get intimidated by the exercise portion of the retreat. And, and then they do them all and they realize like, oh, I could do it.

Dean Pohlman: Like, you know, I’m always shocked at how many people are intimidated by the exercise portion of these things. I’m like, does not the main that’s part of it. But like, you know, our main focus is like overall. But but people get in their heads about, you know, having to perform at a certain level physically. And, but once you get through it and you realize, oh, I could do that.

Dean Pohlman: I think it does give you competence and courage that you can take into other areas of other areas of your life. And, and this context in, in, admitting what’s going on in your life and just being able to answer the questions, just because we already have the answers to a lot of these questions, that’s, that’s the thing that we saw come, come up over and over again, you’re like, well, what’s getting in the way?

Dean Pohlman: And the answer pops up into your head is just, do you have the courage to say it or not?

Coach Patrick: Okay?

Dean Pohlman: Or the or the maybe the, the the the self-confidence or the trust in yourself to say, oh, this is what’s going on versus no, shut up, you’re wrong.

Coach Patrick: But I think and you’re absolutely right. I was very proud of myself afterwards, all said and done. You know, I still am very proud of myself. It is nice to remember that I can do hard things, especially as I get older. But I would go back to that kind of natural system of if I didn’t believe in myself and if I haven’t been working on myself, and had I not known or giving myself permission to be capable, would I have been able to tap into that?

Coach Patrick: I don’t know, so that’s where that doing hard things is important for all of us to do, pushing ourselves out of our comfort zone, but laying that groundwork of I believe in myself. I’m going to be kind to myself. I know I have the answers kind of naturally result in wanting to push yourself more like a healthy person.

Coach Patrick: You know, when you start to feed your body, it wants to be healthy, right? So it kind of builds on itself. The more that you trust yourself, the more you want to see what you can do. So that desire to push yourself almost not completely, but almost comes a little bit naturally because you’re like, I wonder what? I wonder what else I can do, right?

Coach Patrick: And that’s that involvement of believing in yourself, believing you have the answer, having the community, having that motivation tank filled, you know, all those pieces firing, you kind of naturally want to try it. It’s also why what you said the shame based it doesn’t work. Shame based works intermittently. Right. But, it’s ultimately going to put her out because you don’t treat you’re not kind of things that you don’t love or care about.

Coach Patrick: So if you’re just shaming yourself, eventually you’re going to stop whatever it is and go, yeah, I’m a piece of crap and you’re not going to do anything else. Eventually the walls are going to break. But if you think about something that you love a favorite antique, a favorite car, a favorite plant, man, you check on it, you nurture it.

Coach Patrick: You make the changes that need to be changed the pot, the soil, the positioning, blah blah blah blah. Because you care about it. You don’t do that with something that you hate, and so you can’t be shaming yourself or disliking yourself and expecting to have a desire to grow. Push yourself out of the comfort zone. Say, I wonder what I can do next because you don’t believe you can do anything.

Coach Patrick: So it’s all part of a closed system, which is why we try to hit all of those areas and little and little bits all the time. Right.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And that’s something that we’ve explored on this podcast over and over again. You know when we do these, when we do member interviews, you know I always look for at what point did exercise and a healthy lifestyle change from half to to get to. And it’s those people who are successful. It’s the people who start to look at exercise as, oh, I look forward to my exercise.

Dean Pohlman: Oh, I look forward to my, you know, my, my healthy habits rather than thinking about it, as a chore. So, you know, kind of the, the last thing I want to discuss is, is the kind of the how finding yourself is not just about talking with yourself, but also talking with other people in similar life situations. And so, you know, a Thursday people get there, right?

Dean Pohlman: And they’re they’re just starting to know each other. But we, you know, some of it happens through the formal wellness discussions, but also there’s a lot of downtime and there’s meals and there’s, you know, there’s yoga sessions and there’s hikes on this one and there’s driving to the hikes. And it’s through these conversations that people have with one another that it kind of creates this synergy that allows you to bounce ideas off each other, that allows you to realize, like, oh, this person’s going through the same thing that I’m going through, and you start to ask questions back to yourself.

Dean Pohlman: And so it is it is this organic process of community that allows us to come to these deeper understandings and to and to finding yourself. And so by the end of, you know, this, this, this four day event and I’m, you know, I’m just saying, finding yourself in the context of this event, not necessarily. And, you know, and outside of an experience like this, but by the end of the event, it’s the right combination of organic interaction with people in similar life situations as well as, you know, kind of targeted discussions to focus on specific themes that gets you to this point where you know what you need to do.

Dean Pohlman: You know what advice you need to give yourself. And that was something that I think was really cool about this year. The last session that we did, we kind of just came up with some questions on the fly at the end, which helped to summarize and synthesize the entire experience. And the last question that I gave people was, I think I said in 15 seconds or less, give yourself the advice that you know you need to hear something that you intuitively already knew before you came to this event.

Dean Pohlman: And make it simple enough that you can remember it moving forward. And everyone followed the instructions. I think one guy said like maybe 40 words instead of 15 words, but for the most part, everybody, even the people who struggled to be succinct throughout that weekend or able to get that advice to themselves in 15 words or less.

Dean Pohlman: And that was amazing.

Coach Patrick: Okay, well, and that’s what knowing that you have good leadership, that you feel supported, that you have good community, you have people giving examples. That’s that’s that’s all it takes sometimes. And people can really pull together and find that guidance, like how quickly people went from not being able to formulate a thought, to be able to get it down to like 15 words.

Coach Patrick: It’s pretty impressive. And that’s a short period of time. But that’s what we’re all capable of if we give ourselves a chance.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah, yeah. So summary you know, you can you can work on finding yourself in, you know, on your own. Right. Have a therapist do journaling, you know, meditate, listen to the thoughts. You know, pay attention to what the universe is serving you up in your life. Right. Reflect on all of that. But also, it really helps to have these intensives where you get to kind of just hit fast forward on the process and go through it in a way that you’re going to make progress and make realizations that, you know, might take you a year to do, maybe even longer.

Dean Pohlman: Maybe you’d never even get there. Otherwise. And like, for me, you know, I came out of that event. I, what I like about these is I also get to participate and write, and I got to be a participant in this concept of, of of finding yourself and giving yourself what you need. And for me, it was there were answers that I already had.

Dean Pohlman: Right. There are things that I already new is number one, I’m loved as I am, right. That was my that was my. That was my first thing. The second was, It’s good enough now, right? I’m always thinking of how do I improve this, how do I fix it? And, and I realize this need to stop fixing the problem to enjoy life.

Dean Pohlman: But, hey, like, I can leave that unresolved, and it’s good enough now. Like, it’s okay. You know, the dishes in the sink, it’s okay. And then the third thing for me is I’m so fortunate because, gratitude. This was something that really came up a lot on this weekend. And it really comes down to perspective, you know, you know, I’m looking at where I am in life.

Dean Pohlman: I have my, my wife, I have my kids, I have my parents are still alive. You know, I’m just looking around like, wow, look how look how amazing my life is, how how fortunate I am. And so my last one was I am so fortunate. And that moved me to tears. It was, it was just it was everything I needed to hear and it came from myself.

Dean Pohlman: But I wouldn’t have been able to give that to myself without this environment and the facilitation of the event.

Coach Patrick: So yeah, and I’m glad that you’re able to tap into those. Those are beautiful. Those are beautiful reflections. I think what I would want anyone listening to this or going to retreat to know just kind of a few summaries, which is that you are not alone, you are already enough, you are not broken, and the world is better because you’re in it.

Dean Pohlman: And we need people to tell us otherwise sometimes because that voice inside the head is very strong. So, when you are able to get into a community, you know, where you feel supported. And if people are saying the things to you, if people are all saying the same thing to you, maybe you should listen to them. If they’re all saying, hey, that voice in your head is really critical, maybe you shouldn’t listen to it.

Dean Pohlman: Maybe you should listen to them.

Dean Pohlman: So all right, well, Patrick, any any lingering thoughts? Anything else you want to mention here?

Coach Patrick: No. Thank you for doing these, but thank you for this community. Anyone listening to this, thank you for being whoever you are to the people around you. But please, I beg you, be that person for yourself. Trust yourself. You’re. You’re very wise already. And there’s always there’s always someone that can be there with you and for you.

Coach Patrick: Yeah. Reach out for help anytime you need it. Don’t be ashamed.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. In 2027, we are planning on doing two of these Be the Better You retreats. One will be in Austin in spring. The other one will be in the New York City surrounding area. So, you know, somewhere in nature, within two hours or 2.5 hours of New York City. If you want to join, we do have a VIP interest list you can sign up for.

Dean Pohlman: I’ll put the link in the description here. But we hope to hope to see you there. And if not one of those events, come join us at one of the wellness weekends. Those are not quite as intensive, but a lot of people call them retreats. They have that same kind of community feel. And those are.

Dean Pohlman: Those are great if that’s what works for you. So. Yeah.

Dean Pohlman: Sweet. All right, guys, well, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope it inspires you to be a better man. I hope it inspires you to find a better you. Or find that you, that you lost. You got to find it. That’s just what happens when you go through life. You forget it, then you come back to it.

Dean Pohlman: That’s life. So, thanks for listening, and I will see you guys on the next episode. All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you are interested in joining us for an event in 2027. Sign up for the VIP Events interest list list. You can do that. Link will be in the description of this podcast.

Dean Pohlman: If you’re enjoying this podcast, please leave a review if you haven’t already. Those are super helpful. It really is, so please leave a review. If you’re already part of the Manifold yoga community, you can talk about the podcast in our community sections, either in the app or in the Facebook group. The community that is our private members only Facebook group.

Dean Pohlman: That’s really all I’ve got for you today, guys. I hope this podcast was beneficial to you. I hope it inspires you to be a better man to find yourself, and I will see you guys on the next episode. Take care.

[END]