How To Succeed with Fitness Even During Late Middle Age | Jeff Weiss (Ultra Marathon Runner & Author of Racing Against Time) | Better Man Podcast Ep. 195

Dean Pohlman: Hey guys, it’s Dean. Welcome back to the Better Man Podcast. Today’s episode I’m going to be interviewing Jeff Weiss. He is the author of Racing Against Time on Iron Man Ultramarathons and the quest for Transformation at Midlife. The reason why I invited Jeff on the show is because this is a great example of a guy who is starting fitness later in life.

Dean Pohlman: He gets into running when he’s 48 years old, and he went on to do Ironman competitions, to doing ultramarathons, which are these are incredibly challenging events, by the way. So, I think he is a great example of, you know, how to approach fitness as you get older. And what I really like about this is he never really thought of himself as old.

Dean Pohlman: He didn’t I ask him questions about, you know, were you stiff? Were you saw and he never talked about any of that. And so I think he’s got a lot of great insights to share with us in terms of, you know, how do you approach fitness successfully as you age, but also at any age. So check them out.

Dean Pohlman: And I hope you guys enjoy this interview. Hey guys, it’s Dean. Welcome back to the better man podcast today. I’ve got Jeff Weiss here and we’re going to be talking about just getting older and how to adapt your fitness as you age. So Jeff, you actually wrote a book on this called Racing Against Time. And that is what sparked my interest in interviewing you.

Dean Pohlman: And this is pretty much exactly the topic of your book. So what I, what I like to do is, you know, in a lot of these interviews and I should probably let you say hi. Hi. Welcome to the show.

Dean Pohlman: I Dean. Thanks so much for having me. I’m looking forward to, to our conversation. I love this topic.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of the interviews that I do, you know, I have conversations with members from from Manuel Yoga, and they’re not just meant to be like, oh, man, folio was great. Everyone should do it. It’s more so, you know, I try to ask people, where did you realize that you needed to make a change?

Dean Pohlman: And like, what were the motivations there? And that’s kind of where I want to start with you is, you know, where did did you have this moment where you were trying to get back into working out and or did you have like, did you look in the mirror and you were like, who is this guy? Or like, what was your, you know, what was your, like motivation for making a change?

Dean Pohlman: I think for me it was maybe a combination of three things. The first was that, through college, I was I was a decently serious tennis player. And, basically finished with tennis after college, then took up weightlifting and powerlifting and stayed with that for about ten years until I got married and started to have a family.

Dean Pohlman: And I had really liked kind of the athletic lifestyle. But, you know, with kids and we have four, was less and less consistent about my training and that always kind of bothered me. It was always there kind of in the back of my mind. Then, basically didn’t really sort things out until my dad passed away when I was about 47.

Dean Pohlman: And then, you know, kind of I think that event and then approaching 50 really kind of realized had an epiphany one day that, you know, really shouldn’t be putting off any longer getting serious about my fitness. I’d always told myself that I would, I would, I would take it more seriously and spend the time when I had more time in my day and realized that there was no more kind of deferring that into the future for me.

Dean Pohlman: I really needed to get started, and so took a running class when I was 48, ran a first 10-K race, and that’s what really kind of kicked off for me, this kind of midlife fitness journey that I started back then 16 years ago. I’m 64 now.

Dean Pohlman: Okay. Really important question. How do you feel about pickleball?

Dean Pohlman: I think pickleball is great. I have not played it very many times, but, I could see getting into it. I really did come to dislike the game of tennis over time. If you’ve ever read Andre Agassi, a remarkable memoir about his tennis career open, it’s one of the great sports biographies of all time, and he talks at length about how much he disliked the game of tennis.

Dean Pohlman: And it is an emotionally brutal sport and actually, I think, a physically fairly punishing sport as well. But pickleball, to me combines the best elements of tennis. It’s a wonderful racket sport, but it’s a it’s it’s in a tight court. You have much less ground to cover. Serving is not as hard on your body. And, it’s just a lot of fun.

Dean Pohlman: It’s fast pace. Games move quickly. I think it’s a wonderful sport.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. I was, there’s a movie that came out recently called dink with the. I forgot what the guy’s name is. I think it’s Jake. I don’t remember the author’s the the the actor’s name. He was a new girl. I don’t know if you ever watched. So New Girl.

Dean Pohlman: I love that show.

Dean Pohlman: My kids.

Dean Pohlman: Love that show.

Dean Pohlman: The guy who plays Nick, is the.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah, yeah.

Dean Pohlman: In this movie. And it’s about a tennis, you know, former pro tennis player who starts playing pickleball. But I know that I’ve had, there was a guy who came to one of my retreats who, just just hates pickleball. He’s a tennis player. He just, you know, he loves tennis, and he’s just like, oh, they have these little stupid rackets, and they only play on part of the court, and they always take up the courts.

Dean Pohlman: And it sounds like a, you know, a grumpy guy who’s telling people to get off his lawn, which is fine. I can appreciate that. But, anyways.

Dean Pohlman: That’s a tough way to go through life with. Yeah, yeah.

Dean Pohlman: But we’ve got, Anyways, I just made me think about pickleball, so. All right, so you’re turning 50 years old. Not now. Obviously, you’re 64, but you were turning 50 years old. You realize, okay, I can’t keep putting it off. I’d like to talk more about that because that’s like, that’s a concept that I try to impress upon people is like, oh, it’s just kind of really busy right now.

Dean Pohlman: I’ll wait for a better time. I’ll wait for a better time. And the reality is, like, there’s never any perfect time. I think there are better times in general. I mean, you know, some of these people have, you know, it’s like, oh, I’m, I’m, I’m a teacher and, you know, schools finishing up and then I’ll have summer and I’ll have more time.

Dean Pohlman: Or like I’m finishing up a really big project, but you know, what’s the, what’s the law that says that, you know, a task will expand to fill the available time, whatever that.

Dean Pohlman: Law, physics, that an object fills the space in which it’s placed, something, I guess, fills up the space, the container in which it is, it is held right.

Dean Pohlman: Exactly. And so, like, that’s the you know, there’s the there’s the logical reasoning to support the emotional, you know, decision of, okay, now is not the right time, I’ll wait til it’s easier. But in reality you kind of just have to figure out, well, how do I make time now? And maybe I don’t have, you know, an hour a day to work out, but maybe I have time to do five minutes of yoga before I start the day or before I go to work.

Dean Pohlman: So, Yeah. Just. Did you like to speak to that?

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. I mean, I guess I have a couple of thoughts on that. I think one, I think anyone who thinks they don’t have enough time, I would really interrogate that if I were that person. I, you know, I think, I think most of us have a lot more time than we think that we have. If we really kind of audit how we spend our time, how much TV are we watching, how much social media are we consuming?

Dean Pohlman: How are we really using our day? And I think most of us will find actually there’s there are a lot of hours out there. You’ve got 168 hours in our week. If we’re sleeping eight hours a night, that’s 56 hours. It still leaves a lot of time. You’re working 40 hours, 50 hours a week. There’s still a bunch of hours in your week, that you can use productively, even without being kind of a hyper, efficient person who’s using every single minute of the day.

Dean Pohlman: I tend to be a big fan of the advice that they give for personal finance, which is if you want to save money, pay yourself first. So when you get your paycheck, take out the money that you want to allocate for savings or for investment before you start paying your bills and spending money on other things. And that way you can be sure to save or to invest.

Dean Pohlman: I think the same thing for me in the fitness context, if at all possible. I love the idea of working out first thing in the day for however long you’re going to do that for, because I think for most of us, we control that first part of the day. I think we have much less control as the day progresses.

Dean Pohlman: Our lunch hour, you know, depending on the kind of job that you have, you might or might not be able to take a lunch hour for your workout. You might or might not be able to work out at the end of the day. But first thing in the morning, certainly it’s been my experience. I control that, yeah, so I can make sure that I work out then.

Dean Pohlman: I’m also a big believer in, you know, let’s not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, you know, and to the point that I think you just made, even if it’s five minutes, ten minutes, 30 minutes, it doesn’t have to be 45 minutes or an hour or even more than that. And I think, you know, trying to find a way to be consistent, I’m personally a big fan of working out six days a week.

Dean Pohlman: But if you can’t do six, do five. If you can’t do five, do four. If you can’t do four, do three. But be consistent and set a schedule that you can really stick to and do it. And I think it’s hard. Of course, at the beginning, the first month or two, there is a lot of willpower that’s needed to persist.

Dean Pohlman: But once you can start to integrate it into your life as a habit, like brushing your teeth, like, you know, shaving, whatever it might be, it’s not a willpower struggle, and it starts to become part of your routine. I mean, I, I would no more skip a workout than I might skip a night’s sleep. I mean, I just I do it, I don’t fight with myself.

Dean Pohlman: I don’t have to talk myself into it. Even if, you know, even if I didn’t sleep that well, I’m a bit tired. It’s. It’s just never a doubt. There’s never a question in my mind. And I think that’s a function of having turned it into a habit for me. So it’s just part of my daily routine and I don’t think about it much.

Dean Pohlman: I just do it.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. No, that’s a that’s all good points. So did you you know, you talked about, you know, playing tennis in college. Were you for that. And just in general you always worked out in the morning. Did you work out in the afternoons or time of your life or you know, what was.

Dean Pohlman: I was much more I mean, back then playing tennis, it was it was after it was an after school thing. So it was definitely not in the morning. And then when I started to lift, I, I tended to lift at night, which I think is not unusual for younger people. You know, you tend to have a lot of energy at night, and you tend to be able to get away with exercising vigorously at night and still be able to sleep.

Dean Pohlman: I think for me, at the age I’m at now, I, I really do think that mornings are best for me. Having said that, I, I’ve started to swim at night, but I do everything else in the morning, so I run in the morning. If I’m going to cycle, I cycle in the morning, lift weights. I wait some kind of lifting in the afternoon.

Dean Pohlman: So I’m mixing it up a little bit. But but I think the centerpiece of my training schedule, is morning workouts.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And I asked it because I think that, you know, I think that when your default workout time can change over time, like, for me, I always I never did morning workouts, just rarely. I mean, sometimes I would be really I don’t know, I think I’d watch like a clip from Rocky the night before and I’d be like, I’m gonna wake up at six and go for a run.

Dean Pohlman: And like, I would do that like once a year. But for the most part, I was, I was my workouts were in the afternoon. That was how I, you know, that was that was when lacrosse practice was. That was when I would go to the weightlifting, you know, the weightlifting room. And, so that was what so that was what I got used to.

Dean Pohlman: And now I’m, you know, on and off. I work on trying to create my morning mobility routine. I don’t I have very little expectation of waking up at 6:00 and then, you know, okay, now I’m going to do my weightlifting, like, it’s just it’s just not how I, not how I move right now. But, I mean, I believe that if it makes total sense, and I think it is the best solution to exercise in the morning if you can.

Dean Pohlman: Especially if you don’t have a consistent routine yet, because once you get to the end of the day and all the other, you know, energy from the day has has been drained. And, you know, you think about I talk about this a lot, but you think about when you’re putting something in, something new in it’s not just the energy to put in that new thing.

Dean Pohlman: You’re also still using all of your existing energy for all the other things that you have to do. So it’s not like, oh, I don’t even have the energy to like to work out. It’s like, well, no, it’s not just that. You also have all of the other, you know, existing things that you’re doing. And most of us are operating at 100% already.

Dean Pohlman: And so now you’re putting something on top of that. So it you know, I think that’s that’s an important. I think that’s an important recognition. But but yeah, we’ve seen a lot of people who have been unsuccessful with, you know, being consistent with fitness and, just getting into a morning habit. And I think that’s a really, really powerful routine.

Dean Pohlman: And I think I would just add two things to that. One is that, there’s a great book on willpower by Roy Baumeister, and I think he has a coauthor, and he talks about willpower as essentially a muscle. And, and over the course of the day, that muscle, like other muscles, gets, gets used and gets fatigued. And so during that first couple of months where you were trying to create a new habit, you do need to exercise some willpower.

Dean Pohlman: And so your willpower as strong as the first thing in the morning, if you’re counting on, I’m going to work out at 8:00 tonight. And by 8:00 tonight, you’ve had a full workday. You know, you’ve had a lot of stress. You’ve had a lot of activities. You’ve you’ve exercised a lot of willpower over the course of that day.

Dean Pohlman: And then you’re going to find the discipline to to institute this new exercise habit. I think that’s a tough thing to do. I think also, you know, you talk a lot about with your different guests about kind of the emotional side of all of this stuff and another reason why I like the morning workouts. To me, it’s a it’s a victory to start your day with.

Dean Pohlman: I have never I’ve never once finished a workout with regret. Every time I finish a workout, no matter how tough the workout might have been, I feel great that I did it. I’m pleased with myself. I’m proud of myself. I feel good, and it’s a nice thing. It’s a nice sort of tailwind to go into your day with.

Dean Pohlman: So I think, I think there’s a lot to say for it. But but having said all of that, I think we’re all different. I think we all have to find our own path and true, you know, truly, if mornings just don’t work for you. They don’t work for you. And so, you know, find another time in the day where you can, you know, make that commitment and be consistent with it.

Dean Pohlman: I think that’s the key.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And I mean, yeah. And I don’t want people to think that they have to do morning. But realistically it is the easiest way to do it. So anyway, so I’d like to go back to, you know, all right. So you’re 48, you start a 10-K. What were some of the things you first noticed in terms of how your body was at that point versus when you were, you know, working out consistently?

Dean Pohlman: I mean, when you were lifting weights through your 20s, were you doing any cardio at that point or were you just mostly doing powerlifting or like, were you doing anything athletic?

Dean Pohlman: I was doing zero cardio and that always bothered me. I was sensitive to the fact that I’d never really been after tennis. I’d never done anything serious with my cardio, and I worried that I was going to pay a price for that. So I really wanted to find a way to, to to do something that was aerobic.

Dean Pohlman: And so the running to me seemed like a natural thing to try. I saw an ad for a running class, of all things, the goal of which was to prepare you for the Veterans Day 10-K in Washington, D.C. this was back in November of 2010. I think running that first one, you know, I don’t know, I think to me, I just found it to be remarkable that I could run three miles, four miles, five miles and then actually do that race.

Dean Pohlman: I had tried to 10-K when I was 17, when I was playing tennis, and ended up walking the last two miles, which always, oh, wow, kind of that is more money. Considering terrorist. And it.

Dean Pohlman: Just sprinted.

Dean Pohlman: Well, I probably did get the pacing wrong, but but yeah, I mean, it was it was tough. I walked the last two miles. I ached for the next week. Wow. And just really felt like I wasn’t a runner, that it was not something I could ever do. So I think emotionally, that was perhaps the biggest thing.

Dean Pohlman: It was exciting to be able to realize that I could do something that I had always considered kind of outside of my reach. And that’s a nice thing, I think, to to find out about yourself. And then decided to keep going with it. First try to get a little bit faster in the 10-K, did a number of additional races, was cross training at the time, and then decided to try triathlons and kind of both with triathlon and with running, sort of climb the ladder of progressively longer, more challenging races.

Dean Pohlman: And with running went up to half marathon, marathon, got into ultramarathons and with triathlon, sprint and Olympic then half and then ultimately did did two full Ironman races. And so that’s I think when I really started to see the changes, when I really started to get serious. Yeah, just having much more energy, just liking the way that my body was starting to look.

Dean Pohlman: And just the confidence that it was giving me that I could do hard things that I could, I could, you know, basically persist even with discomfort, which, you know, again, I think to me, these are very translatable life skills. I think they’re great to have that kind of mindset and your personal life and your business life that I can do the things that are challenging, that I can persist at something that I want to be successful at.

Dean Pohlman: I think those are great mindsets to have in any aspect of your life.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah, for sure. And it sounds like you went through quite the identity shift. From, you know, that late 40s until whenever you started running Ironman competitions. But I want to go back to when you first started running. And, you know, just how you had to approach fitness differently, like, talk about your overall, you know. Did you start doing did you start getting massages?

Dean Pohlman: Did you, you know, were you doing more mobility work? Were you really stiff in the mornings. Like way stiffer than. And you had pains that you didn’t think you had like 20 years ago. Like what was what was that like?

Dean Pohlman: You know, it’s funny, I think for me those adjustments have come more recently. I think at the beginning from age 48, probably until almost 60, 61, it was almost the reverse. It was it was one pleasant discovery after another, one discovery after another while I can do this. And I didn’t think I could before. And while this isn’t as hard as I thought it would be, and this is remarkable, I think in the last four years, I’ve realized I need to get more serious about things like massage.

Dean Pohlman: I’ve gotten into to ice baths. Finally have started to get serious about yoga, which I had put off for the longest time. And I’m happy finally to be getting more serious about that. I need to get, in general, more serious about recovery. I between from August of 2021 until September of 2025, I way over did things.

Dean Pohlman: I did two half Iron Man’s a full Iron Man, five marathons and five ultramarathons, and ended up really paying a price for that. I got a decently serious case of overtraining syndrome and had pain down both of my legs, had my back was in fairly constant spasm, and it took me about six months to get back to training after that, and I am finally fully back and getting ready for the Chicago Marathon in October.

Dean Pohlman: But you know, I’ve come to realize that as an older athlete, I do need to take recovery much more seriously. I need to do a better job of listening to my body. In hindsight, I realized I was slowing down much more than could be, assigned to aging. And I should have recognized that I needed to stop bunching races so close together.

Dean Pohlman: But. So, yeah, I think to me, those have been the biggest adjustments that I’ve found that I need to make. I need to get much more serious about my flexibility and my core. I need to take recovery a ton more seriously through things like resting more between events, massage and and ice baths. Yeah. So I think that for my 60s, I’m finding that is the big adjustment.

Dean Pohlman: How do I stay serious and committed and continuing to do things that are challenging, while at the same time taking into account that I’m, I’m not in my 50s or 40s or certainly younger anymore, and I need to be mindful of that.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. I mean, you know, I talk with a lot of people in our community and on this show, and I’m not really worried about, I mean, I guess I can I’m not as worried as I might thought I would have been about, you know, fitness and aging like 40s 50s. It seems like guys have like, yeah, I understand that it’s harder, but I also like, see these guys like lifting weights, doing yoga, like swimming, running, like doing all these things that, you know, they’re able to do hiking.

Dean Pohlman: And, and so I’m not as concerned about, you know, that. And, and also, you know, it makes me think when people 70 messages, they’re like, oh, well, I’m older than you, I’m 45. And so it’s really tough. And I’m like, yeah, sure. Like, but and I mean, I guess I have no, you know, firsthand experience. So I can’t say what’s tough.

Dean Pohlman: But I still see, like, you know, people in their 40s, people in their early 50s. And I’m like, yeah, it’s, you know, it’s it’s it’s not as hard as, you know, you might think it is right now, but, you know, you say that you didn’t really have much, you had more of this mindset or this more this experience of, oh, wow, what can I do next?

Dean Pohlman: Which is something very consistent that we hear on this podcast with people that I interview, once they get over the initial hump of getting into a habit of exercising regularly and starting to live a healthier lifestyle, then it becomes, what can I do now? What can I do now? They’re like, what if I started eating? What if I started cooking my own meals three times a week?

Dean Pohlman: What if I what if I started lifting weights to do? What if I started swimming? But but I am curious, like how do you attribute any of your lack of soreness or stiffness or just, you know, overall body aches and pains to something in particular or what what what do you think allowed you to?

Dean Pohlman: It’s funny, I always tell people I’m a I’m a vintage car with low mileage. So I think the fact that I wasn’t doing that, I wasn’t running, I wasn’t doing, I wasn’t exercising the way that I should have been all those all those decades from my from around the time that I turned 30 until until almost 50, you know, would have been better that I it would have been better to have been exercising during that period.

Dean Pohlman: But but one upside, one benefit to that is my body had gotten beaten up a lot less than it might have if I’d been pushing myself throughout. But also, I mean, I should be clear, I’ve had my share of of sports injuries over the course of my, of my running. And, you know, over time, you get better about noticing that they’re coming, working with really good physical therapists, doing the things that they tell you to do, the exercises, the rehab and all of the rest.

Dean Pohlman: Taking breaks when you need to. That is something of a cost of doing business. And I think it’s okay, but I think, you know, to your point, it’s exciting to recognize that we we place artificial limits on ourselves. We tell ourselves, I can’t do this because I am not a runner, because I’m 45 and that’s too old.

Dean Pohlman: And I think we need to move past those things and really interrogate that and really try new things. You know, to these days we are seeing athletes do the most extraordinary things in their 40s, 50s and beyond. There’s a female runner, Jeannie Rice, who I think is 76 or 77, and she is turning in the most extraordinary times in the marathon there, I think, in one or more of the world major marathons.

Dean Pohlman: She has won her age group outright, both, both men and women. So, you know, she is just extraordinary. I think she’s running, you know, marathons in the three, three hour, 30 minute range in her mid to late 70s, which is just remarkable. I think for me, I did that first 10-K at age 48. I did my first Ironman at age 57.

Dean Pohlman: I did my second at age 59. I did my longest ultramarathon, 72 miles. I did that at age 61. So I think to that point I felt like I was still climbing ever taller mountains, which was awesome. And now I do. I am seeing that I probably need to stop trying to outdo myself, and need to be more serious about making sure that this machine can last, because I want to be as active as I possibly can be into my 70s, 80s and potentially beyond that.

Dean Pohlman: You know, that subtle cliche, it’s a marathon and not a sprint. You know, I really want to play the long game here. I love this whole focus that we see now on health span, that period of our life where we’re fit, healthy, free of disease. And and there’s just no question that, that if we can get serious about our fitness, we can extend that period.

Dean Pohlman: And that to me is an exciting discovery. It’s not like, you know, there’s so many areas of wellness. What’s the best diet which supplements help? Which ones don’t help? What are the best exercises in particular? And, you know, you’ll have different opinions and different directions, but the, the basic fact that regular exercise improves your health and will improve will give you a longer health span.

Dean Pohlman: It’s just it’s just not controversial at all. We just need to do we just need to do that work.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. It’ll certainly help. Hopefully.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah, exactly.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. There’s there’s you know, I think it’s also understand I think, you know, you’ve you’ve alluded to this, but you know, the importance of emotional health. You know, I think I used to believe that as long as I was, you know, eating well and exercising and sleeping, that, oh, I don’t have to worry about anything. And, unfortunately not true.

Dean Pohlman: But, you know, I hopefully we can we can agree that, Yes, this this whole exercise thing. Living a healthy lifestyle can, can help with all this. So I want to go to I want to go back to this idea that you mentioned of interrogating ourselves when we say, I can’t. And I’m wondering what that process kind of looked like for you in real time when you were having some of these, you know, moments.

Dean Pohlman: I think for me, I had told somebody years ago before I did that 10-K, but even after I did that 10-K, I probably still thought the same way, which is I had once told a friend that I was as likely to run a marathon as I was to walk on the moon like I just thought it was. It was that out of reach for me.

Dean Pohlman: And then I did the 10-K then. Then after trying a couple more, thought, you know, maybe I go a little bit farther and did a, did a ten mile race, and then thought maybe I could do a half marathon. And then after the half marathon, I thought, you know what? Actually, maybe that marathon is within reach.

Dean Pohlman: So it was a step by step process. Each additional kind of step forward, each additional challenge that I succeeded in accomplishing opened my eyes to what might be next, sort of just around the corner. At that point, I probably still after the first marathon, I probably still thought ultramarathons were insane. Certainly after I’d done sprint a bunch of sprint triathlons and a couple of Olympic triathlons, I still thought Ironman would would never, ever be something that I could do.

Dean Pohlman: And so it was to me, it was a very step by step process and just realizing, I think fundamentally that that we should be cultivating a growth mindset. There’s a great book by Carol Dweck called mindset and about, you know, essentially, we shouldn’t label ourselves like I in either direction. I’m always going to be good at X, I’m always going to be bad at Y.

Dean Pohlman: And we should, you know, recognize that, you know, we may not fully know what our potential is until we expose ourselves and try different things. And so I think we need to be open minded about what we might be able to accomplish and give it our very best shot. And I think in most instances will be pleasantly surprised.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And so for you, when you were thinking about, you know, you not wanting to not wanting, but you were thinking you would never do a marathon. What was the what was the voice in your head say when you said, you know, like, oh, I’m not going to do a marathon? Was it? Because like, oh, that’s just not me.

Dean Pohlman: Was there not a desire or like, what was the you remember?

Dean Pohlman: It was very much that this just not me. It’s just it’s not for guys like me, I still lift I’m still I’m, I’m, I’m big for for running. And I don’t have that typical thin or what we think of as the stereotypical marathoners build. And I just felt like it’s just not for guys my size. And then the guy who first got me thinking about marathons, was the guy who played high school football.

Dean Pohlman: He was he was bigger than me. And, and that kind of opened my and he he told me, like I used to think running wasn’t for guys my size. I felt like when I ran, everything hurt. And I thought, wow, those are all the same things that I thought. And those are the same limitations that I placed on myself.

Dean Pohlman: And so maybe I need to rethink all of that. But yeah, I always thought it was just impossible. It was just something I didn’t worry about or think about or consider. Until as I got closer to it. After doing that, that half marathon, that’s when I started to think maybe it’s possible. And I think for me, I one of the things I love about racing is you sign up for these races months in advance.

Dean Pohlman: You have to train for them for months. And that’s exciting because throughout that period you have this, you know, kind of scary thing out there that you are getting ready for. And it was for me, it was fun to think about it at night before going to bed to look at the the map of the course, to try to visualize covering all of that distance.

Dean Pohlman: There’s that famous quote that’s attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt, do one thing every day that scares you. And, so, you know, it needs to be the right level of scary. You know, it wouldn’t have been smart for me to try to jump right from a half marathon to an ultra or to Ironman or something like that. But if you’re doing it in a step by step away, it’s fun to be getting out of your comfort zone.

Dean Pohlman: I mean, all of these things sound like cliches, but I think they’re cliches for a reason. We talk about them in this way because there’s a lot of truth in it. Yeah, that’s a lot of fun.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And you mentioned signing up for a race, having having that goal, having the specific kind of deadline or. Yeah, deadline in mind. And I think that works for a lot of people, you know, a lot of people, they need that deadline. Like, you can’t just say like, hey, well, we’re going to work out three times a week.

Dean Pohlman: They’re like, for what? What am I doing it for? Do I have like, do I need to, you know, do I need to lose weight in time for my my daughter’s wedding next fall? Or like, what’s the what’s the specific goal? And am I going to go on a cruise, you know, and I need to feel confident about taking my shirt off or like what is the specific thing in mind?

Dean Pohlman: So having that, you know, if you’ve if you’ve been struggling with, you know, having motivation, you know, trying something like that, having a deadline is is a great way to do it. So I want to go back to running. Because this whole concept of running without hurting is very intriguing to me. Whenever I start running, I spent a while.

Dean Pohlman: I think the last time I tried running was it was probably three years ago. And yeah, I think I started like and it was not competitive at all. In any sense, it was more of a instead of walking, I’m going to jog very lightly with a stroller. It was very much with this. The goal of I am going to condition my feet.

Dean Pohlman: There was no like speed quality to it. I didn’t even get out of breath. I was just like plodding along, pretending.

Dean Pohlman: To do it. Actually, that’s exactly the way to do it.

Dean Pohlman: Oh, okay. Cool. So yeah, that’s my my question is how do you how do you start running without hurting?

Dean Pohlman: I guess I’d say two things. One is, you should go to a specialty shoe store and get fitted properly for the running shoes that are going to be best for you and for your stride and for your body type. And you shouldn’t just go in there and pick out like you might for dress shoes, the ones that kind of appeal to you in terms of how they look, or the brand or something like that.

Dean Pohlman: You really want to find a shoe that is right for you, and that will make it more comfortable and that will limit your risk of injury. And then the second is exactly what you just said. And it was so shocking to me when they told us about it in the running class, because I had tried running years before and had not done it this way.

Dean Pohlman: But they said, do all your runs at a conversational pace, a pace at which you could actually hold a conversation and, and so you just sort of start that way and you build that way and, you know, take it nice and slow. And, you know, for me, I started off running maybe 30 minutes actually, at the beginning I would my, my friend Jason, the former football player, he told me that when he started he would run for two minutes, walk for two minutes.

Dean Pohlman: And so I started exactly like Jason. I did it like that and then slowly extended the duration of my running segment until I was up to 30 minutes, which was an incredible feeling. But I think, you know, be modest at the beginning and just take it nice and slow. And really, I think the goal is to try to find some enjoyment in it.

Dean Pohlman: Running is a weird sport, though, I have to say. Like, there are other sports, like pickleball, for example, where you might be having fun the whole time. I think few people actually are out there running with a smile on their face. I think with running, the pleasure comes more when you’re right after you finish and you really, you get those endorphins, you get that wonderful feeling.

Dean Pohlman: I mean, every now and then while I’m running, I just think I, I’m, I’m amazed that I’m able to do this. I’m amazed that, you know, two hours into a long run and I’m still moving my body. And it’s just so not what I ever thought would be possible for me. And so every now and then, I’m, I remind myself of of how far I’ve come on this journey.

Dean Pohlman: And that’s a nice feeling. But it’s, it’s it’s interesting. It’s different. I mean, it’s a good it’s a great way to clear your head, I think more so than other activities perhaps. It’s nice to be out in nature. I love when I’m in a new city to go for a nice run along a new river or a park or someplace that I haven’t been before.

Dean Pohlman: It has its attractions for sure, and I think the racing is great, but, but yeah, it’s it’s certainly not for everybody, but I think you will increase your chances if you get properly fitted with shoes and you do it exactly the way that you describe, which is start slow conversational pace, build from there. If you can run with a group, so much the better.

Dean Pohlman: If you can work with a coach and get a get a training plan so that you’re taking the thinking out of it. I think in general you’re always better off working, you know, find an expert like you for, you know, for, for running and, and work with the coach and get guidance and, you know, don’t try to simultaneously become fit and become a fitness expert.

Dean Pohlman: I think, you know, to the extent that you can leverage the expertise of somebody like you who spends their time thinking in a really, really complex way about how to train people, that’s fantastic.

Dean Pohlman: Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. Hey, guys, it’s Dean interrupting my own podcast to mention firm tech. If you’ve heard of Firm Tech, you’ve heard this episode before. This is basically an aura ring for your penis. It helps you measure the health of your penis. It helps you measure the strength of your erections, blood flow, how often you’re getting erections at night, which is great for sexual health as well as your overall health.

Dean Pohlman: If you’re interested in learning more, check out the link and the promo code that I have in the show notes. Yeah, I think there’s two kind of mindsets that go with this idea that we have to do everything, or we have to like, jump all the way in, or we have to like, do it at a certain level.

Dean Pohlman: I think for the one, it’s just like the, you know, it’s the typical masculine, kind of, oh, I’ve got to do it at the hardest level. Like, I’m just going to jump in and I got to do at the hardest level for it to be. Right. And then on the other spectrum, I think there’s also the people who just feel so bad about where they are with their fitness.

Dean Pohlman: They’re like, I have to like, I have been such a lazy piece of shit, you know, I’ve now I have to like, do an hour a day or like, what’s the point? And instead you need to look at it from this perspective of, okay, I want to be doing this three times a week, probably for the rest of my life.

Dean Pohlman: So how do I scale up to doing that? Right? What’s phase one of of that rather than okay, I’m going to start exercising for an hour a day, every day. You know, maybe it’s okay. I’m just going to show up to the gym three times per week, or I’m going to do ten minutes of yoga, you know, three times per week, or I’m going to run once per week.

Dean Pohlman: You know, there’s, there’s and you can even get even smaller than that. You know, you look at the examples that we talk about in like two, two of my all time favorite books on on behavioral science, Atomic Habits and Tiny Habits. But for those books like it’s the goal is just, just put on your shoes and go outside.

Dean Pohlman: Yep. You know, check or it’s it’s, you know, it’s, but just or like, just go to the gym and stand there and then go home. You know, it’s like they’re very it’s it’s it’s breaking it down to like, okay, if I want to get to phase ten, this is what I eventually want to do. What is the first step of that look like?

Dean Pohlman: And and you know, like you mentioned at the beginning, it’s just it’s making it into a habit where it’s just something that you do without really thinking about it. And that’s the other thing, you know, I guess so many people messaging, emailing me or like, I just not I’m not motivated. Like, who cares if you’re motivated? Like, doesn’t matter if you’re motivated.

Dean Pohlman: Like, yes, there are underlying if you’re not motivated, that is a very good sign of underlying things that need to be addressed. You know, like and that’s yeah, you should work on those things. You should absolutely have a therapist like, you should have a therapist. You should be journaling regularly. You probably have some sort of mindfulness practice. You should have friends who you talk to.

Dean Pohlman: If you don’t have friends, get friends, I don’t know. But like, there’s all these things that you you know, if there’s a lack of motivation, then absolutely, there’s something you know, that needs to be addressed. At the same time, you can also acknowledge that you don’t want to do it and then do it anyways. Most of us have a job.

Dean Pohlman: We have to show up. We have to do things that we don’t want to do. And so, you know, taking that same mentality over to exercise, kind of the idea that you’re like, oh, I just I don’t, I don’t want to exercise like, good. You’re a normal person. Like nobody wants to exercise all the time. Even Jeff. Jeff.

Dean Pohlman: Jeff loves running and he doesn’t want to exercise all the time. He just shows up and does it because it’s important. Because he said he would. Yeah, I think.

Dean Pohlman: I think there’s so much there. I think a I think there are no quick fixes. So, you know, even if you feel bad about the fact that you haven’t been working out for a bunch of years, which in many ways was my situation at age 48, you can’t say. Well, and so by my next birthday, I need to be, you know, I need to be a rock star.

Dean Pohlman: Like, we’re we’re playing the long game here. Building habits, building good routines, finding sports that we like and that we can persist with learning how to do them properly. Training according to a schedule, sensibly minimizing our risk of injury. Recovering when we do get hurt. You know, we really want to build those structures and those systems and those practices, and I think that’s so critical.

Dean Pohlman: You made a comment before that. I really loved, you know, one of the things I love about running is this notion. I think, for me, I would struggle to have as my soul motivation that I’m exercising because I want to be fit for me. I like having races on my calendar because I could tell myself that I’m training because I’m getting ready for that race, knowing that along the way I’m building my fitness on, maintaining my fitness, and I’m I’m helping myself live a healthier, happier life for longer.

Dean Pohlman: But that actually, I don’t think would be enough motivation necessarily for me to persist in the way that I do. I need the discipline of having a race. Not everybody needs that. And and that’s okay. We’re all we’re all different. But, but yeah, I think we need to be at the same time forgiving with ourselves, not hard on ourselves and at the same time committed to doing the things that we can do to improve ourselves.

Dean Pohlman: And it’s a, it’s a it’s a challenging balance to strike. But I think we really do need both things that commitment to get better, but also, you know, being being gentle with ourselves and not hard on ourselves and not, not not basically just focusing on our regrets and the things that we wish we had done, earlier, you know, certainly in many ways it would have been nice for me to have started training seriously back in my 30s, but I can’t I can’t go back in time and change that.

Dean Pohlman: And they’re actually, you know, I have some benefit from not having done that because I do have a fresher body at age 64 that I might have had otherwise. So, you know, I can’t change the things that I can’t change. And. Right, just gonna need to move forward.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. Is that what being forgiving with yourself looks like for you or what? What would you say that looks like in practice?

Dean Pohlman: I think in practice, it just means, always thinking in terms of what can I do to make things better, what can I do to solve a problem and not not ruminating on I’m. I feel so upset about this, or I feel so bad about that, or I can’t do better because of all of these tough things that are going on in my life.

Dean Pohlman: I think just shifting the focus from the problems to the solutions to ways in which we can move ourselves forward, I think that’s that’s so critical. I mean, you talked a moment ago about journaling. You know, there’s I think a lot of good science behind this concept of keeping a gratitude journal and really focusing on what am I grateful for in my life, even, even even in tough times, there should always be some things that we are that we’re grateful for.

Dean Pohlman: And I think just just really training ourselves to be positive, to be constructive, to be problem solvers, to find ways to be optimistic. I think that’s central to everything. It’s central to to being a successful athlete. And I think it’s central to being a successful partner in a relationship and to being effective in our in our professions.

Dean Pohlman: So, yeah, you know, I love the idea of just trying to cultivate skills and approaches that are not just going to make us a better in terms of taking care of our bodies, but in every possible way is going to make us a better human being.

Dean Pohlman: So what would you do? Let’s let’s say, you know, you miss a workout and because it’s because you don’t know what’s, what’s what, what’s a good, good example of when, when you miss a workout or when you don’t do something that you wanted to do for your health. That just didn’t happen.

Dean Pohlman: I mean, I do a fair amount of traveling, so I do every now and then miss a workout. And actually that’s funny. Yeah, that’s something that I have changed as I’ve gotten older. When I was younger, there was no such thing as missing a workout. I mean, if I, if I had to travel all day and I got to the hotel, I would do a workout at 10:00 at night to make sure that that day didn’t pass without a workout.

Dean Pohlman: Now I’ll basically say, you know what? I’m going to give my this is a day of rest for my body. It’s not a bad thing. And I’m not going to be, I’m not going to be so extreme and I’m going to allow that day to pass. So it has to be something like I was flying all day.

Dean Pohlman: It can’t just be that I was busy or I didn’t feel like it. But if if travel or illness or something truly causes me to miss a workout, That’s okay. It’ll be another day of rest for my body. My body could probably always use that. And, and so I just try to take it in that spirit and not, you know, not get upset with myself that, that I didn’t get to train that day.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah, yeah. How do you how do you how do you move through that guilt or that kind of, I don’t know if guilt is the right word, but disappointment or, you know, because because that’s going to happen and, you know, you can’t always I like that you have that perspective. You know, the flip side of like, oh, I’m doing something good for my body.

Dean Pohlman: But, you know, there’s also the, there’s also the tendency to kind of in one form, kind of gaslighting ourself and saying like, oh, well, it doesn’t really matter because all this other stuff is happening and it’s like, well, yeah. Like you, yes. You, you know, you did drop the glass jar and it broke and it sucks and you have to clean it up, you know, like, yes, the whatever, you still have your house and it’s great, but like you still have this glass jar that you broke.

Dean Pohlman: So it’s kind of like, what’s the balance of like acknowledging that the thing sucks and then like, yeah, but all these other things are great. So how do you kind of it sounds like you mostly moved to the focus on gratitude versus focusing on the, I guess I’m trying to find, like, you know, the balance of just acknowledging that the thing sucks versus not acknowledging it and focusing on other stuff.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah.

Dean Pohlman: I think we need to live in the real world. And so if you drop the vase, that’s a bummer and you need to clean it up. We clean up our messes. But we don’t wallow in bad things that happened. We deal with them like adults in a serious way, in a responsible way. And then I think we shift our focus back once, once we’ve addressed what needed to be addressed, I think we shift our focus back to, okay, what am I going to do now in a positive way to move myself forward?

Dean Pohlman: Years ago, I read a book by George Will about baseball men at work, and he profiles like a great hitter, a great fielder, a great pitcher, and maybe, maybe a great infielder and a great outfielder. And the pitcher was Oral Hershiser. Oral Hershiser was a great pitcher for the Dodgers back in the 80s. And Hershiser had some comment that like when he pitches he’s always trying for perfection going forward.

Dean Pohlman: So if he’s having a rough outing and he’s giving up a few runs, his focus is how do I basically I want to have a perfect game going forward. And he’s not wallowing in, geez, I gave up three runs in the first inning like, this sucks. This is a terrible game. I’m going to lose. You know? I’m just so bummed and so negative.

Dean Pohlman: And I think that’s a powerful thing. And, and and I think that is the right kind of mindset for us to have. Like, we need we need to deal with reality. We don’t want to be that person who goes through life. No, no, it’s all wonderful. You know, there are some painful, difficult, challenging things in life and we need to take them seriously and engage with them.

Dean Pohlman: But, but I don’t think we want them to define us, and I don’t think we want them to keep us from being able to move forward in a in a constructive way. Yeah.

Dean Pohlman: Okay. Thanks for the answer. So I usually like to wrap this up with rapid fire questions. Are you ready? I am okay. What do you think is the one habit, belief or mindset that has helped you the most in terms of your overall happiness?

Dean Pohlman: Having a growth mindset that I can, I’m capable of things that I might have thought previously were impossible.

Dean Pohlman: Okay, what’s one thing that you do for your health that is overlooked or undervalued by others?

Dean Pohlman: That’s a great question. I wish I could answer it more rapidly. I think signing up for races, it gives me structure, gives me something to look forward to. I get a lot of value out of that.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. Okay. What’s the most stressful part of your day to day life?

Dean Pohlman: Sleep is still a challenge for me. Still have more insomnia than I would like. I haven’t totally cracked the code on sleep. I continue to work at it. I work on my sleep hygiene. I’m getting better. I’m making progress. But it is definitely a puzzle that I have not fully solved.

Dean Pohlman: Okay. And what do you think is the biggest challenge facing men and their well-being right now?

Dean Pohlman: I think finding that balance between being fit, active, strong, responsible, persistent, gritty, while also being emotionally intelligent, sensitive, engaged, empathetic, you know, kind of the ying and yang of being a a truly strong man. I think that’s the big challenge. Yeah.

Dean Pohlman: Good answers.

Dean Pohlman: Well, they actually were pretty tough, but, but. Yeah, but they were fun.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah. There’s no right one. So, Well, is there anything else you want to mention?

Dean Pohlman: No. I think I’ve loved our conversation, and I love the way you approach these issues in your interviews. I think, you know, I think not enough folks in sport and fitness are seeing the kind of the bigger picture. And, and I think the big picture is what’s so important. And I think that’s a huge part of what justifies this investment of time that we make in trying to make our bodies healthy.

Dean Pohlman: Yeah, I appreciate that. All right, guys, well, I hope you enjoyed this interview. If you want to check out Jeff’s book, it’s called Racing Against Time. And, yeah. Thank you again, Jeff.

Dean Pohlman: Thanks so much, Dean. I really enjoyed it.

Dean Pohlman: All right guys, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope it inspires you to be a better man. And I will see you on the next episode. All right guys, thank you for listening to this interview with Jeff. I hope you enjoyed it. For any of the links or his book. We’re going to put that in the show notes.

Dean Pohlman: If you are enjoying this podcast, please leave a review wherever you listen. On Apple, on Spotify. We also have video versions of the podcast on the Better Man Podcast YouTube channel, as well as ad free in the UK app and members area. And that’s what I have for you guys today. So you can always learn more about the Manifold Yoga community at Manifold Yoga.

Dean Pohlman: Join and I will see you guys on the next episode. Thanks guys. I hope this inspires you to be a better man.

Dean Pohlman: Hey guys, it’s Dean interrupting my own podcast to talk about Magic Mind. Magic mind is a caffeine supplement that I’ve been using for the last few years. It’s something that I use as a alternative to coffee some days, and also something that I use maybe right before I do a podcast or from a video as a way to get a energy boost without the crash that usually accompanies caffeine.

Dean Pohlman: If you want to try it out. I put a link in the show notes below, but it’s a nice little supplement. It’s a drink. Two ounces that you can take just for a little boost of energy. A little more focus throughout your day. Give it a shot. Let me know what you think.

Dean Pohlman: Hey, guys, it’s Dean interrupting my own podcast to talk about magic mind. Magic mind is a caffeine supplement that I’ve been using for the last few years. It’s something that I use as a alternative to coffee some days, and also something that I use maybe right before I do a podcast or from a video as a way to get a energy boost without the crash that usually accompanies caffeine.

Dean Pohlman: If you want to try it out. I put a link in the show notes below, but it’s a nice little supplement. It’s a drink. Two ounces that you can take just for a little boost of energy. A little more focus throughout your day. Give it a shot. Let me know what you think.

Dean Pohlman: Hey, guys, it’s Dean interrupting my own podcast to mention firm tech. If you’ve heard of Firm Tech, you’ve heard this episode before. This is basically an aura ring for your penis. It helps you measure the health of your penis. It helps you measure the strength of your erections, blood flow, how often you’re getting erections at night, which is great for sexual health as well as your overall health.

Dean Pohlman: If you’re interested in learning more, check out the link and the promo code that I have in the show. Notes.

Dean Pohlman: Hey guys, it’s Dean interrupting my own podcast to tell you about some upcoming Manolo Yoga events. We have wellness weekends that are happening in Phoenix, Seattle, and Atlanta. If you’re interested in joining me there, meeting others within the Mantle Yoga community, this is an amazing weekend full of yoga improvements, inspiration for your fitness, and community connection. Link is in the show notes.

Dean Pohlman: Super early bird is going on now.

Dean Pohlman: Hey guys, interviewing my podcast to talk about rapid release. This is a mobility tool that I have been obsessed with for the last few months. It’s something that I use when I’m watching TV. It’s my go to pain relief tool. If I have muscle tightness or soreness, that’s causing pain. And it has been an amazing complement to my overall fitness and my mobility practice.

Dean Pohlman: If you want to learn more, go to the link in the show notes below and then use the Mantle Yoga code there for pretty nice discount.

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